Southern victory series and what i think this alternate. In the book, the main evens begin unfolding during the american civil war and he series spans a period of nine decades all the way up to the mid 1940s. Harry turtledove is the awardwinning author of the alternatehistory works the man with the iron heart, the guns of the south, and how few remain winner of. The period addressed in the series begins during the civil war and spans nine decades, up to the mid1940s. Lees special order 191 and the confederate states go on to. Anyway the point of this post wasnt to pose a question of what would have happened if this pov. This alternate setting is based on harry turtledove s south victory series, or referred by fans as timeline 191.
An animated map of all known events in harry turtledoves southern victory series for each year in the books. The problem with timeline191 the unapologetic nerd. American front ends in midstream, more obviously part of a larger work even than turtledoves worldwar series. Timeline191 series videssos series worldwar series darkness series. Jan 05, 2018 to celebrate my 100th video, im talking about harry turtledove s timeline 191 a. The freedom party was a confederate nationalist party that arose in the defeated confederacy after its defeat in the alternate first world war, after being subjected to conditions similar to the treaty of versailles. Mar 07, 2018 i also want to give tl 191 harry turtledove s southern victory series a nomination for worst althistory scenario by virtue of squandering every ounce of creative potential to simply retell ww1ww2 in america with parallels for just about everything and ultimately form an utterly boring and predictable timeline that can be summed up as csa.
The southern victory series or the timeline 191 are names given by fans to the eleven books written by harry turtledove about an alternate history of the war and the united states. I am sure many of us are familiar with the works of harry turtledove, often called the master of alternate history. This is the first book in harry turtledoves alternate history tl191 timeline191 series, which consists of this standalone volume, plus two further trilogies, the. He is well known for writing many successful novels based on the historical fiction, science fiction, fantasy, and alternate history genres. The southern victory series or timeline191 are fan names given to a series of eleven alternate history novels by author harry turtledove, beginning with how. So the migration that occurred from 1900 to 1940 in our timeline is not going to happen, driving those percentages i cited earlier even higher. Harry turtledove posited in this series that if the orders did not fall into union hands, france and the uk would recognize the confederacy, forcing an end to the civil war. This alternate setting is based on harry turtledoves south victory series, or referred by fans as timeline191. Timeline191southern victory series harry turtledove 3 future history robert a. Nov 29, 2015 turtledove s timeline becomes less and less likely the further he gets away from the point of divergence. The timeline191 book series by harry turtledove includes books how few remain, american front, walk in hell, and several more. Instead of being a national hero, abraham lincoln is a disgraced former oneterm president. The timeline 191 series is harry turtledoves most sweeping alternate history work so far. The problems with harry turtledove s timeline 191 version 1.
Southern victory also called timeline191 after general robert e. Heinlein 1 fallout video games 1 dead night of space 1 worldwarcolonization series harry turtledove 1 the legacy of the aldenata john ringo 1 caliphate tom kratman 1 fallout 4 1 hearts of iron video game 1 include characters. Harry turtledove s most popular series is timeline 191. Aug 31, 2017 an animated map of all known events in harry turtledove s southern victory series for each year in the books. However, i would love to discuss harry turtledove and know the opinions of others on him. Gordon mcsweeney harry turtledoves timeline 191 vs. I cant fault turtledove for having the richmond front along the potomac bog down. When the great war engulfed europe in 1914, the want to read.
Dec 03, 2011 the freedom party ruled an alternate confederate states of america in harry turtledove s timeline 191. Lees special order 191, showing the entire disposition of his forces, in the confederate camp in frederick, maryland, but a rebel infantryman noticed his dropped message and returned it to him. While turtledove still needs to find a voice to this period, the great war series shows every sign of increasing in scope and complexity. Set in a world where the union failed to intercept a message special order 191, hence the timeline s name intended for a confederate officer before antietam, which resulted in an independent. Ferdinand koenig was is a major antagonist in harry turtledove s timeline 191, an alternate history in which the confederacy winning the american civil war eventually led to the rise of a fascist confederate regime. This is a bonus part 5 of a collaborative series with alternatehistoryhub over the. Set in a world where the union failed to intercept a message special order 191, hence the timelines name intended for a confederate officer before antietam, which resulted in an independent confederate states of america, complete with slavery. Most of his other novels are disappointing, in my opinion, and especially towards the. Turtledove how would the worldwar series have progressed if the race had tried to conquer the southern victorytimeline191 version of earth. With timeline191, turtledove provides just such a perspective, and this brilliant series should be required reading for all students of 20th century history, as well as a mustread for all alternate history buffs.
How likely is it that harry turtledoves timeline191. The problems with harry turtledoves timeline191 alternate wars. In terms of major published works, agent of byzantium, timeline 191, starting with how few remain and continuing onwards, possibly the guns of the south. This series actually began in 1997 with the release of how few remain, turtledoves branch point occurred when the confederacy won their freedom from the united states.
Southern victory timeline191 19972007 by harry turtledove. The world of tales of the fox, leading to were complications when four moons go full at the same time. Thats the thesis of how few remain, harry turtledoves novel of alternate history. Mcsweeney was raised in a devout presbyterian family. Turtledoves timeline becomes less and less likely the further he gets away from the point of divergence. Thats the thesis of how few remain, harry turtledove s novel of alternate history. Turtledove how would the worldwar series have progressed. The series is a look at what could have happened if the union did not find a copy of robert e. Lees special order 191, which detailed the army of northern virginias invasion of the union in september 1862 during the american civil war. Timeline191 is a fan name given to a series of harry turtledove alternate history novels, including how few remain as well as the great war, american empire, and settling accounts series.
Germany and the us lost the war in the exact same manner as our timeline. Timeline 191 is a fan name given to a series of harry turtledove alternate history novels, including how few remain as well as the great war, american empire, and settling accounts series. Jan 11, 2019 i am sure many of us are familiar with the works of harry turtledove, often called the master of alternate history. Harry norman turtledove born june 14, 1949 is an american novelist, best known for his work in the genres of alternate history, historical fiction, fantasy, and science fiction and mystery.
I have read a few of his works and am curious to read more. There are a very large number of spoilers in this article. To celebrate my 100th video, im talking about harry turtledoves timeline 191 a. The southern victory series or the timeline191 are names given by fans to the eleven books written by harry turtledove about an alternate history of the war and the united states. See the complete timeline 191 series book list in order, box sets or omnibus editions, and companion titles. Its one of the many scenarios of harry turtledoves timeline 191 where the central powers lose the great war instead of wining.
During his time in the war, mcsweeney was armed with a flamethrower. The last duel between battleships, fourth pacific war after timeline 191 see full image. The timeline 191 series is harry turtledove s most sweeping alternate history work so far. The problems with harry turtledoves timeline191 version 1. He actually does historical research for his novels, and footnotes some of them. While i was lurking before i was joining, it would seem that the general consensus of the forum looks down on harry turtledove s timeline 191 work posthow few remain please, no sam carsten and zinc oxide jokes here and that turtledove doesnt take into account any of the repercussions i. Harry turtledove has 339 books on goodreads with 285991 ratings. He has written many, many books and short stories, some of them set in alternate universes, some of them fantasy diverging from recorded history he actually does historical research for his novels, and footnotes some of them. The southern victory series, also known as tl191, is comprised of several novels, beginning with how few remain, which detail the separation of the confederacy from the united states in the war of secession, and the series of wars which followed in north america over the subsequent century. Harry turtledoves southern victory series adopted into hoi4 r timeline191. An alternate wikipedia infobox for the hispanojapanese war from harry turtledoves timeline191 series. In terms of major published works, agent of byzantium, timeline191, starting with how few remain and continuing onwards, possibly the guns of the south. What are harry turtledoves best and worst works in the.
The first novel in this series, how few remain, featured the second mexican war. Harry turtledove s southern victory series adopted into hoi4 r timeline191. I also want to give tl191 harry turtledoves southern victory series a nomination for worst althistory scenario by virtue of squandering every ounce of creative potential to simply retell ww1ww2 in america with parallels for just about everything and ultimately form an utterly boring and predictable timeline that can be summed up as csa is the nazis and usa is francebritain. Harry turtledove is a prolific novelist and historian of america, having written some of the most successful historical novels. The freedom party ruled an alternate confederate states of america in harry turtledoves timeline 191. The southern victory series or timeline 191 are fan names given to a series of eleven alternate history novels by author harry turtledove, beginning with how few remain 1997 and published over a decade. How few remain 1997 is a science fiction novel about a timeline where the south won the civil war. These turtledove resources are not affiliated with this site. The alternate point of departure is still sometime between december 1941 and may 1942, which places the arrival of the first fleet sometime during the events of return engagement or drive to the east. Either ten or eleven books depending on whos counting. Alternate historians from harry turtledove to winston churchill love to play with the civil war, positing changes that could forever alter the timeline. The southern victory series, also known as timeline191, is a series of alternate history novels by american author harry turtledove.
Southern victory timeline 191 19972007 by harry turtledove. The unofficially named timeline191 and sometimes southern victory comprises of eleven books detailing the history of the two american countries after the south won the american civil war. Nov 09, 2015 the problem with timeline191 4 replies so ive already talked about two harry turtledove series before, darkness and worldwar, so now its time to talk about turtledoves other famous book series. The southern victory series, also known as tl 191, is comprised of several novels, beginning with how few remain, which detail the separation of the confederacy from the united states in the war of secession, and the series of wars which followed in north america over the subsequent century. Set in a world where the union failed to intercept a message special order 191, hence the timeline s name intended for a confederate officer before antietam, which resulted in an independent confederate states of america, complete with slavery. So ive already talked about two harry turtledove series before, darkness and worldwar, so now its time to talk about turtledoves other. He has been referred to the master of alternate history.
So ive already talked about two harry turtledove series before, darkness and worldwar, so now its time to talk about turtledoves other famous book series. Oct 21, 2019 timeline 191 southern victory series harry turtledove 3 future history robert a. Even then it was still quite a closerun thing too, until the americans got heavily involved around. Ferdinand koenig was is a major antagonist in harry turtledoves timeline 191, an alternate history in which the confederacy winning the american civil war eventually led to the rise of a fascist confederate regime. While i was lurking before i was joining, it would seem that the general consensus of the forum looks down on harry turtledoves timeline191 work posthow few remain please, no sam carsten and zinc oxide jokes here and that turtledove doesnt take into account any of the. Harry turtledove is an american author of alternate history, historical fiction, science fiction and fantasy novels. Worst alt history scenarios page 5 spacebattles forums. Timeline191southern victory series harry turtledove. He has written many, many books and short stories, some of them set in alternate universes, some of them fantasy diverging from recorded history. For all those unfamiliar with the series, the confederate states of america won the american civil war and seceded from the union and it gets rough and tumble from there to the 1940s. Order of harry turtledove books harry turtledove is an american author of alternate history, historical fiction, science fiction and fantasy novels.
Koenig was the secondincommand to confederate dictator jake featherston, and the head of the secret police under the title of attorney general though he had no actual legal. Southern victory also called timeline 191 after general robert e. Most of his work is alternate history among the most prolific and accessible. Harry turtledove yes, thats his real last name is an author of alternative history one of the most prolific and accessible. The discovery of special order 191 was one of those random moments in history where a small event had enormous consequences. The timeline 191 book series by harry turtledove includes books how few remain, american front, walk in hell, and several more. Having explored the alternate history of world war ii in the worldwar series, harry turtledove now turns his attention to an alternate world war i in the great war series, beginning with american front. The two nations formed this timelines version of the axis powers. Other works by harry turtledove provide examples of.
Hello all, nevermore here, since my thread the other day didnt do too hot, thought id try another one. Harry norman turtledove born june 14, 1949 is an author. May 24, 2010 with timeline 191, turtledove provides just such a perspective, and this brilliant series should be required reading for all students of 20th century history, as well as a mustread for all alternate history buffs. Southern victory series and what i think this alternate history would look like in 2018. Gordon mcsweeney was a soldier in an alternate first world war in harry turtledoves timeline 191, where the confederacy won the civil war and became the primary enemy of the u. A separate timeline with a csa victory in the second american revolution is described in the novel the. Mit american front eroffnet turtledove seine the great war trilogie. Lees special order 191 and the confederate states go on to win the american civil war. Southern victory timeline 191 book series in order. Works by harry turtledove with their own trope pages include. He is the author of several different series, including the southern victory, worldwar, crosstime traffic and other series. Turtledove in the tl191 books has repeatedly stated that black migration between the t wo countries is minimal at best. See the complete timeline191 series book list in order, box sets or omnibus editions, and companion titles. The southern victory series or timeline191 are fan names given to a series of eleven alternate history novels by author harry turtledove, beginning with how few remain 1997 and published over a decade.
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